Author Topic: Boycott, past and future  (Read 425 times)

Offline akaspooky

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Boycott, past and future
« on: August 09, 2017, 01:07:15 AM »



"But now, a group of 43 senators — 29 Republicans and 14 Democrats — wants to implement a law that would make it a felony for Americans to support the international boycott against Israel, which was launched in protest of that country’s decades-old occupation of Palestine."

U.S. Lawmakers Seek to Criminally Outlaw Support for Boycott Campaign Against Israel

"The criminalization of political speech and activism against Israel has become one of the gravest threats to free speech in the West. In France, activists have been arrested and prosecuted for wearing T-shirts advocating a boycott of Israel. The U.K. has enacted a series of measures designed to outlaw such activism. In the U.S., governors compete with one another over who can implement the most extreme regulations to bar businesses from participating in any boycotts aimed even at Israeli settlements, which the world regards as illegal….

The proposed measure, called the Israel Anti-Boycott Act (S. 720), was introduced by Cardin on March 23. The Jewish Telegraphic Agency reports that the bill “was drafted with the assistance of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.”

The bill’s co-sponsors include the senior Democrat in Washington, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, his New York colleague Kirsten Gillibrand, and several of the Senate’s more liberal members, such as Ron Wyden of Oregon, Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, and Maria Cantwell of Washington. Illustrating the bipartisanship that AIPAC typically summons, it also includes several of the most right-wing senators such as Ted Cruz of Texas, Ben Sasse of Nebraska, and Marco Rubio of Florida."...

This pernicious bill highlights many vital yet typically ignored dynamics in Washington. First, journalists love to lament the lack of bipartisanship in Washington, yet the very mention of the word “Israel” causes most members of both parties to quickly snap into line in a show of unanimity that would make the regime of North Korea blush with envy. Even when virtually the entire world condemns Israeli aggression, or declares settlements illegal, the U.S. Congress — across party and ideological lines — finds virtually complete harmony in uniting against the world consensus and in defense of the Israeli government."…

Finally, it is hard to put into words the irony of watching many of the most celebrated and beloved congressional leaders of the anti-authoritarian Resistance — Gillibrand, Schiff, Swalwell, and Lieu — sponsor one of the most oppressive and authoritarian bills to appear in Congress in many years. How can one credibly inveigh against “authoritarianism” while sponsoring a bill that dictates to American citizens what political views they are and are not allowed to espouse under threat of criminal prosecution? Whatever labels one might want to apply to the sponsors of this bill, “anti-authoritarianism” should not be among them."

https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19/u-s-lawmakers-seek-to-criminally-outlaw-support-for-boycott-campaign-against-israel/

____________
If it's wrong now, it was wrong then.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20


Offline oldguy

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2017, 09:21:30 AM »
Why would I want to boycott anything made in Israel? They're a trusted ally.  ???
Communism is the opiate of the intellectuals - With no cure except as a guillotine might be called a cure for dandruff - Clare Boothe Luce

Offline roadrunner

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2017, 02:45:11 PM »
Why would I want to boycott anything made in Israel? They're a trusted ally.  ???

Cause the Joos are bad.  Germans good.   :o :o
I came into this world screaming, soaked in someone else's blood......I have NO problem going out the same way.

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2017, 03:52:48 PM »
If it's wrong now, it was wrong then.

Cause the Joos are bad.  Germans good.   :o :o

I hope you're not one of those guys who're always ragging on 6996 about playing the race card, rr.

It's a Jesus thing... sorry if it offends you, roadrunner.

    If TPTB go so far out of their way to make sure nobody can boycott them, then they must consider boycott to be inherently wrong... right?  And their supporters/congressmen must also consider boycott to be a bad thing, or they'd never have signed on to a bill to make their own countrymen into felons for supporting the Israeli-boycott.

    But if it is wrong for sympathetic supporters of thousands of newly-made orphans and widows of Palestine to do... then it was equally wrong for anyone to do to Germany.

And sanctions are the same thing.  In fact, I seem to remember something in Revelation about someone having the power to buy or sell.

Jesus didn't call the Pharisees hypocrites for no reason... IMHO, of course.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline oldguy

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2017, 03:56:35 PM »
I hope you're not one of those guys who're always ragging on 6996 about playing the race card, rr.

It's a Jesus thing... sorry if it offends you, roadrunner.

    If TPTB go so far out of their way to make sure nobody can boycott them, then they must consider boycott to be inherently wrong... right?  And their supporters/congressmen must also consider boycott to be a bad thing, or they'd never have signed on to a bill to make their own countrymen into felons for supporting the Israeli-boycott.

    But if it is wrong for sympathetic supporters of thousands of newly-made orphans and widows of Palestine to do... then it was equally wrong for anyone to do to Germany.

And sanctions are the same thing.  In fact, I seem to remember something in Revelation about someone having the power to buy or sell.

Jesus didn't call the Pharisees hypocrites for no reason... IMHO, of course.

Quit with the antisemitism already. It wasn't the Joos who killed Christ, it was the Romans. So you should hate the Italians, ok?
Communism is the opiate of the intellectuals - With no cure except as a guillotine might be called a cure for dandruff - Clare Boothe Luce


Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2017, 04:13:22 PM »
Quit with the antisemitism already. It wasn't the Joos who killed Christ, it was the Romans. So you should hate the Italians, ok?


What? no quit with the antigermanism to roadrunner... I'm shocked.

And since I believe the two witnesses to the life of Jesus, I believe the parables pertaining to the death of the Son... and that they were one and all convinced by the priests and elders to scream out the words Crucify Him.

It's up to you whether you believe the testimony of Jesus or not, oldguy.

But it's interesting that today finds the same image:  that of the governors and kings going against the laws of their lands, and doing what the enemies of Jesus wants them to do.  Should make you think.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2017, 04:18:46 PM »
Bill making it a federal crime to support BDS sends shockwaves through progressive community

"There is only one story in the news, for followers of the Israel/Palestine conflict, and that is Glenn Greenwald and Ryan Grim’s report at the Intercept yesterday on new legislation in the Congress that would criminalize support for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS). Yes, criminalize.

The bill is such a crude example of overreach by the Israel lobby that it is sure to backfire on its supporters as Greenwald and Grim’s report ricochets around the Democratic Party…"
https://mohandeer.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/bill-making-it-a-federal-crime-to-support-bds-sends-shockwaves-through-progressive-community/
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline roadrunner

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2017, 05:20:44 PM »
Meh.  Coming from a confused little old cat lady, your musing is quite droll.  I digress........
I came into this world screaming, soaked in someone else's blood......I have NO problem going out the same way.

Offline oldguy

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2017, 07:22:08 PM »
Meh.  Coming from a confused little old cat lady, your musing is quite droll.  I digress........

Bet she even has the numbers "88" tattooed on her somewhere.
Communism is the opiate of the intellectuals - With no cure except as a guillotine might be called a cure for dandruff - Clare Boothe Luce

Offline ?

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2017, 07:31:57 AM »
"But now, a group of 43 senators — 29 Republicans and 14 Democrats — wants to implement a law that would make it a felony for Americans to support the international boycott against Israel, which was launched in protest of that country’s decades-old occupation of Palestine."

I am opposed to this law. In a free country, one should be able to boycott anyone he wants to. Otherwise what's to keep them from saying I can't boycott leftists?

That said, the Jews are not, and have not for decades been "occupying" Palestine. That's because there is no "Palestine", and never was. No such nation as Palestine ever existed. The land that they are accused of "occupying" they won in battle from Egypt, Syria and a couple of others during a war of aggression launched by their neighbors. Had that war been successful in finishing what the Germans started, I wonder how many leftists would be whining about moslems "occupying" that territory!

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2017, 01:14:28 PM »
Meh.  Coming from a confused little old cat lady, your musing is quite droll.  I digress........

Nope, I'm almost certain that you and oldguy complain bitterly whenever 6996 drags out a race card or two.  And here you sit with german, little, old, cat, lady in your hands, like virtual straight flush of anti-isms. 
And on the other thread, oldguy is trying to say that I look like you, ginger hair and all, of all things.

If you two don't like race cards, why are you attempting to use them?  I say attempting because anyone but a fool knows there are no ginger Jews, no tall fair-skins... no sort of Ashkenaz at all within the tribe of Judah.

And playing the antisemitic card gets really goofy when you didn't mind going half-way 'round the world to kill the semite Iraq people.  And I clearly recall a few virtual high-fives when Trump bombed semites in Syria.  ...  which reminds me... but that video's the subject of another thread.

So please, for the sake of all sensible people who may yet be hanging out here, stop being goofy, roadrunner.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline roadrunner

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2017, 01:29:40 PM »
Nope, I'm almost certain that you and oldguy complain bitterly whenever 6996 drags out a race card or two.  And here you sit with german, little, old, cat, lady in your hands, like virtual straight flush of anti-isms. 
And on the other thread, oldguy is trying to say that I look like you, ginger hair and all, of all things.

If you two don't like race cards, why are you attempting to use them?  I say attempting because anyone but a fool knows there are no ginger Jews, no tall fair-skins... no sort of Ashkenaz at all within the tribe of Judah.

And playing the antisemitic card gets really goofy when you didn't mind going half-way 'round the world to kill the semite Iraq people.  And I clearly recall a few virtual high-fives when Trump bombed semites in Syria.  ...  which reminds me... but that video's the subject of another thread.

So please, for the sake of all sensible people who may yet be hanging out here, stop being goofy, roadrunner.

Fuck you.  The racist anti-semite is YOU Spook.  I bet you just love using the word nigger when it suits you, and I bet your sweet as punch to their face, yet the knife is run deep.  YES, I judge you because you change your feeble mind more than 6996 changes his stance on history.  Stop before you start here Spook, you may not like the barrel of shit you open up.  I have laid off of you for quite some time....even went so far as to apologize to you....so let's keep it that way.  Until you realize what it really is that you do, you will always be held at arms length.  Being called a crazy old cat lady is mild..........if you recall......

Speaking of anti-isms...........aren't you now an Anti-Paulism follower?  Perhaps Peter is more to your taste now?  You wonder where I get "crazy" from....snort.  BTW, don't ever tell me to stop anything.  I will just double down.  Got that?  Let. It. Go.

I want to add:  I'm not anti-German at all.  I am however anti-NAZI everything.  It's pretty clear you aren't.......
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 01:37:25 PM by roadrunner »
I came into this world screaming, soaked in someone else's blood......I have NO problem going out the same way.

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2017, 01:49:47 PM »
That said, the Jews are not, and have not for decades been "occupying" Palestine. That's because there is no "Palestine", and never was. No such nation as Palestine ever existed.

Nonsense. Of course there is, singlequestionmark.

The Palestine Mandate
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/palmanda.asp

[quote author=? link=topic=27533.msg220039#msg220039 date=150236831
The land that they are accused of "occupying" they won in battle from Egypt, Syria and a couple of others during a war of aggression launched by their neighbors. Had that war been successful in finishing what the Germans started, I wonder how many leftists would be whining about moslems "occupying" that territory!
[/quote]

 
Israel provoked the Six-Day War in 1967, and it was not fighting for survival

James North on June 2, 2017

"I am old enough to remember clearly how the Six-Day War was reported at the time. Just about everything we were told then was wrong, as the major historians of the period all acknowledge today. Let’s start with how the crisis was covered as it happened, 50 years ago:

* Gamal Abdel Nasser, the leader of Egypt, was portrayed as a dangerous demagogue, widely popular across the Arab world, who wanted to destroy Israel. The Western press regularly demonized him, and he was easily the most recognized Arab leader until Saddam Hussein.

* In May 1967, Nasser made his move. He ordered the United Nations to remove peacekeeping troops from the Sinai peninsula, where they had been serving as a tripwire to prevent conflict between Egypt and Israel.

* Next, Nasser escalated by closing the Straits of Tiran to international shipping, blockading Israel’s southern port of Eilat, which started to strangle the country.

* Meanwhile, Nasser was plotting with other Arab states, chiefly Syria and Jordan, to launch a joint invasion and push Israel into the sea.

* Israel’s very existence was in danger. Therefore, Israel launched a “preemptive” attack on June 5, fearing that it had no choice if it were to survive.

* Fortunately, despite the odds against Israel, it won in only 6 days.

* To protect itself against another onslaught, Israel occupied the Sinai, the Golan Heights, and the West Bank. The occupation was the purely accidental consequence of a fight for Israeli survival.

This Mainstream Narrative remains unchallenged in the popular imagination, 50 years later. Just the other day, a New York Times reporter stated as fact that in 1967, “Israel defied annihilation by its Arab neighbors.”

Norman Finkelstein, the distinguished scholar, has done as much as anyone to uncover the truth about the Six-Day War. In a wide-ranging interview in his Brooklyn office, he refuted the Mainstream Narrative point by point. You can find his detailed revisionist account in a chapter of his now classic Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict, supplemented by another work: Knowing Too Much: Why the American Jewish Romance with Israel is Coming to an End. Finkelstein is known as combative, a man who has not been afraid to fight for the truth, despite damage to his career along the way. But what’s also vital to recognize is that he is a serious scholar, Talmudic in his intensity, and that no one has ever successfully challenged his research.

[We will run the entire interview with Finkelstein this weekend.]

Finkelstein emphasizes that no genuine academic today, whatever their political orientation, endorses the Mainstream Narrative. He starts by identifying what he has called the “Two Biggest Lies.”

* The truth is that Nasser and the other Arab leaders had absolutely no intention of invading Israel in June 1967.

* And Israel’s existence was never in the slightest doubt, as both Israeli and American leaders knew that Israel could easily win any conflict, even against a coalition of  Arab states.

Finkelstein insists we cannot understand the Six-Day War without going back 11 years, to the 1956 Suez Crisis. That year, the Egyptian leader, Nasser, nationalized the Suez Canal — and Israel, Britain and France launched an unprovoked joint invasion of Egypt to seize the waterway back. But the United States, under President Dwight Eisenhower, opposed the attack, and pressured the tripartite invasion force to withdraw and leave the Canal to Egypt. Suez was a catastrophe for all three invading nations, and British Prime Minister Anthony Eden was forced to resign. Meanwhile, Nasser’s reputation in the Arab world, and across Africa, Asia and Latin America, rose to new heights.

Norman Finkelstein argues that the historical record shows that in 1967 Israel yearned to complete its failed mission of 1956. First, he says, Israel’s “primary goal was to neuter Nasser, to deliver a death blow to these uppity Arabs, and finish off what was called radical Arab nationalism.” He goes on that Israel’s government had a “secondary goal” — “to conquer the lands they had coveted but didn’t manage to seize in ’48: East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, the Golan.”

Israeli leaders had only one big doubt: what would America do? If Israel did attack, would the United States force another humiliating climbdown, as in 1956? Or would Washington look the other way?

Finkelstein challenges the Mainstream Narrative’s account of the specific events in the months leading up to the war. His analysis is not at all unusual, and is shared to a great extent by other scholars. He argues that the facts show that Israel was not peacefully minding its own business, but instead regularly and violently provoking its Arab neighbors. In November 1966, in the largest military action since the Suez invasion, Israel attacked the West Bank town of Samu, then under Jordanian rule, killing 18 Jordanian soldiers and destroying 125 homes. Israel continued instigating along its border with Syria in April 1967, triggering an aerial battle in which 6 Syrian planes were shot down, including one over Damascus. Voices in the Arab world started to accuse Gamal Abdel Nasser, the leader of the Arabs, of standing by and doing nothing.

So Nasser did tell the United Nations to remove the peacekeeping troops from Egyptian Sinai, mainly so he could be seen to be taking some action. But Finkelstein points out that Israel could have asked for UN peacekeepers to be placed on its side of the border, which would have maintained the tripwire. Israel did no such thing.

Nasser’s closing of the Straits of Tiran has been similarly distorted in the Mainstream Narrative. Finkelstein explains that Nasser may actually have had the legal right to close the Straits, that he probably did not intend to maintain the closure, and that he offered to take the dispute to the International Court of Justice, but Israel refused. And Israel would not have choked overnight, but got 95 percent of its imports through its other ports and had a several months’ reserve supply of oil.

Meanwhile, Finkelstein says, Israeli diplomats descended on Washington, D.C. to find out if the United States would give them a green or at least an amber light. Finkelstein has looked through the historical record, and here is a summary of what he found:

* The U.S. agreed with Israel that Nasser had no plans to attack.

* The U.S. agreed that Israel would easily defeat Egypt on the battlefield, either alone or with any combination of other Arab nations.

* And the U.S. tacitly gave Israel permission to start the war, or at least indicated there would be no repeat of Eisenhower’s repudiation after the 1956 Suez invasion.

Once Israel attacked first, Finkelstein says the conflict should more aptly be called the Six-Day Walkover. “In fact,” he says, “the war did not last six days; it lasted closer to six minutes. Once Israeli planes in a surprise blitzkrieg knocked out the Egyptian air force still parked on the ground, the war was over. . . If the war lasted longer, it was only because Israel wanted to conquer the Egyptian Sinai, the Jordanian West Bank, and the Syrian Golan Heights.”

Finkelstein does recognize that the Israeli public did believe the Mainstream Narrative, took to heart the lies and distortion their government was feeding the world, and genuinely feared the Arab states wanted to push them into the sea. He explains that the Israeli government “figured the Israeli people would give their all if they feared their backs were up against the wall. The leaders were culpable twice over; they provoked the crisis and then launched an unprovoked attack.”

Once the war ended, in the United States it was treated as a lark, a thrilling adventure. After Israel occupied the Egyptian Sinai, jokes circulated: “See the Pyramids. Visit Israel.”

But it was no joke for the at least 18,000 people who died in the fighting: 10,000-15,000 Egyptians; 6000 Jordanians; 1000-2500 Syrians; and nearly 1000 Israelis.

Israel did win its immediate war objectives; Nasser’s image was severely damaged, and he died three years later, with his brand of Arab nationalism greatly discredited. Israeli soldiers did occupy the West Bank, Sinai and the Golan.

Whether the occupation, now shuddering into its 51st year, has been good for Israel is still to be decided by history."
http://mondoweiss.net/2017/06/provoked-fighting-survival/
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2017, 02:00:59 PM »
Fuck you.  The racist anti-semite is YOU Spook.  I bet you just love using the word nigger when it suits you, and I bet your sweet as punch to their face, yet the knife is run deep.  YES, I judge you because you change your feeble mind more than 6996 changes his stance on history.  Stop before you start here Spook, you may not like the barrel of shit you open up.  I have laid off of you for quite some time....even went so far as to apologize to you....so let's keep it that way.  Until you realize what it really is that you do, you will always be held at arms length.  Being called a crazy old cat lady is mild..........if you recall......

Speaking of anti-isms...........aren't you now an Anti-Paulism follower?  Perhaps Peter is more to your taste now?  You wonder where I get "crazy" from....snort.  BTW, don't ever tell me to stop anything.  I will just double down.  Got that?  Let. It. Go.

I want to add:  I'm not anti-German at all.  I am however anti-NAZI everything.  It's pretty clear you aren't.......

When have I ever been known to pull my punches, by acting "sweet as punch" to your face, roadrunner? 

If you're reconsidering your apology, I have only to assume that it was never done from the heart.  Which would mean you acting sweet when in fact you are waiting for your chance at "one shot one kill".  I'm not as weak as I used to be, child.  I have made peace with my past.  I'm wondering... have you?

Change your mind, roadrunner... climb out of the full-body mask, and be who you really are.  Start in with the lies you told about me back in the day.  I'm sure, given the failure of memory had by one and all, that your lies will gain even more momentum and circle of friends than they did in the past.  And why not?  The world has moved on.

--edited to add--

And yes, Peter and John and James and Matthew are more to my taste, now that I've decided to truly follow Jesus... rather than Saul of Tarsus.

Nor am I a national socialist sort of person, for those who choose to believe the truth.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 02:04:30 PM by akaspooky »
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline roadrunner

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2017, 02:22:22 PM »
When have I ever been known to pull my punches, by acting "sweet as punch" to your face, roadrunner? 

If you're reconsidering your apology, I have only to assume that it was never done from the heart.  Which would mean you acting sweet when in fact you are waiting for your chance at "one shot one kill".  I'm not as weak as I used to be, child.  I have made peace with my past.  I'm wondering... have you?

Change your mind, roadrunner... climb out of the full-body mask, and be who you really are.  Start in with the lies you told about me back in the day.  I'm sure, given the failure of memory had by one and all, that your lies will gain even more momentum and circle of friends than they did in the past.  And why not?  The world has moved on.

--edited to add--

And yes, Peter and John and James and Matthew are more to my taste, now that I've decided to truly follow Jesus... rather than Saul of Tarsus.

Nor am I a national socialist sort of person, for those who choose to believe the truth.

I never reconsider anything.  Once done, it's done......but that was the past Spook......the future is going to be how YOU decide it is.

I never look back, unless I am forced to do so by someone else who deserves a second look.
I came into this world screaming, soaked in someone else's blood......I have NO problem going out the same way.

Offline akaspooky

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Peter Ford Busts False Flag Gas Attack
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2017, 02:44:35 PM »
I never reconsider anything.  Once done, it's done......but that was the past Spook......the future is going to be how YOU decide it is.

I never look back, unless I am forced to do so by someone else who deserves a second look.


Trump Lied: Fmr. Ambassador Peter Ford Busts False Flag Gas Attack

By GPD on April 7, 2017

No US intel agency submitted reports on gas attacks, no briefings given

The BBC has been ordered Peter Ford’s interview off their servers.  The copy we have is a mobile phone video of a TV screen.  Imagine that.  Sit down, watch, its going to be a bumpy ride:"

[that video is here]

By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor

"A few frightened dissident members of congress have confirmed that today’s attack on Syria was based only on personal assessments made by President Trump based on Facebook postings of White Helmet videos now debunked as counterfeit.
    “Normally, the congressional leadership is briefed.  All committee heads of high level security clearances and are usually given a handout and then briefing from the National Security Adviser who chairs such meetings.  No such briefing was held, not at the White House, not at the Pentagon and the CIA director has not met with the President at all, he hasn’t been seen.  This is strange.
    What is puzzling for some of us is that only Tulsi said anything and when Rand Paul opposed the strike, he still backed the unconfirmed news reports of Assad’s complicity.  Only a few days ago Rand thought Assad was a hero, in fact prettymuch the entire GOP were backing Assad.  Certainly nobody objected when Tillerson announced an end to “regime change,” not one word.  Only the Dems and Hillary still wanted Assad’s scalp.
    This whole thing smells…”
...
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/04/07/trump-lied-fmr-ambassador-peter-ford-busts-false-flag-gas-attack/
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2017, 05:10:31 PM »
Nonsense. Of course there is, singlequestionmark.

I presume you mean that of course there is or was a nation of Palestine. If so, an internet search has not turned up that fact. Here in a nutshell is what history and numerous experts say about the subject:

"Palestine has never existed as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians."

Now I know that you do a lot of obscure reading and maybe this is wrong. But if so, you have a few thousand years of entrenched history to overturn. And to be wrong it would require a conspiracy so complex it would make the Bush-Saddam conspiracy look as simple as a game of marbles! Can you imagine purging every single relevant historical record from hundreds of locations over thousands of years? And what about all the eye witnesses?

Take a better man than me to pull it off.

Israel provoked the Six-Day War in 1967, and it was not fighting for survival

I am not qualified to argue with you about it, but I can put two and two together. It seems unlikely that a tiny country less than 90 miles across, and comprising less than one tenth of one percent of the total area of the Middle East, would "provoke" the other 99.9 percent, and a dozen odd nations that outnumbered them hundreds to one and surrounded them on every side. Nations that openly and often advocated and threatened the complete genocide of their entire race. It seems unlikely, that even the most overconfident and foolish political and military leaders would willingly tackle such odds for a longshot chance to gain another one tenth of one percent. Especially since the gain would be full to the brim with impoverished enemies of every sort, who at best, would be a huge drag on their economy.

I will admit that unlikely things do happen. And might have here. But it would have required a conspiracy on a galactic scale. The mother of all conspiracies.

All for a gain that on it's face has no particular value. 

I'm sorry, but that is just unlikely.

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2017, 08:13:53 PM »
A lot of this comes from the majority of American evangelical Protestants believing in the doctrine of Dispensationalism or Futurism. They see the Book of Revelation and the Book of Daniel as future events in a literal, physical, apocalyptic, and global context. This doctrine was made popular by John Darby in 1830 AD. It's a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture as the best hermeneutic or system of studying the bible.  This is the belief in Christ's personal return to set up his earthly kingdom. They believe that Israel and the churche are two separate entities.


I'm aware this is controversial but I believe the bible teaches There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Your race, citizenship, social status, rich or poor, male or female means nothing, all the same saved by grace. I believe most all prophecies have been fulfilled by GOD in the first century.

Galatians 3:16
God gave the promises to Abraham and his child. And notice that the Scripture doesn't say "to his children," as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says "to his child"--and that, of course, means Christ.
 
26
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 2:11
for there is no partiality with God.

The end they speak about in Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation is the end of Jerusalem and the old covenant, the end of that world.

I don't believe the dispensation doctrine of Christ returning to earth to do animal sacrifices again and to physically rain on the world from Israel.

I believe honest Christians believe this to be biblical, but I think it's a big error in interpreting the scriptures. I believe the Palestinians have been victims for years because of this twisted belief. Many Christians believe we must support Israel in whatever they do. Many Christians believe GOD is going to destroy the physical world completely, I believe this is a misunderstanding of the language of the Bible.  Lots to say here without enough time. I believe if GOD put Israel there it would be much different. but I believe it's man's work from him misunderstanding the Bible.
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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2017, 01:35:46 PM »
I presume you mean that of course there is or was a nation of Palestine. If so, an internet search has not turned up that fact.

Nations that openly and often advocated and threatened the complete genocide of their entire race.

I don't mean to hurt your feelings, singlequestionmark, but you seem to be a tad naive.

Just to name a few of the things you've missed, in the MO chain of events:

USS Liberty
http://www.ussliberty.org/report/report.htm

King David Hotel bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

Done by Wiki's so-called "underground" Irgun,
the same people who did the

Deir Yassin Massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

Led by the future CHOSEN leader of Israelis,

Menachem Begin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Begin

"As head of the Irgun, he targeted the British in Palestine.[2] Later, the Irgun fought the Arabs during the 1947–48 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947%E2%80%9348_Civil_War_in_Mandatory_Palestine
"The 1947–48 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine was the first phase of the 1948 Palestine war. It broke out after the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted a resolution on 29 November 1947 recommending the adoption of the Partition Plan for Palestine.[5]"

Which led to the false history you seem to believe in, singlequestionmark... a history given by the completely biased and complicit, W1kipedia.

Because TPTB run W1ki… which only reports what has become so open to the public that they can no longer deny it… but even then, they admit a bare minimum, and spin the rest… hoping (not in vain) that you will continue to think that a thousand websearches can't be wrong.

But the fact is that the web is controlled by groups like g00gle and yah00, etc. ad nauseum, which control what comes up on those thousands of searches.

And the earlier fact of the matter is that those who have stolen all the gold not only get to make the rules, but they get to write the history which defines the rules.  [the theft of America's gold is linked to the F3D]

And the earliest fact there is… one group of people have been known as tax gatherers for almost any nation you care to name.  Even Sayce says that they gathered taxes in Egypt, so don't go thinking it's an antisemitic deal… Sayce is philosemetic, but he doesn't see that what he reports leads to all the dead bodies there are.

And because they were tax collectors, they became rich.  And then they became the bankers.  But not only to jonny on the street… their aim was to be bankers of kings.  And we see the effects and the effectiveness of that aim, all around the face of the world.  Because today, they run the international banks in all nations… except for maybe Syria and Iran.  Focus

It doesn't take a conspiracy, really.  It only takes money and a well-connected family… and control of the post (they had it very early on, in Europe), ownership of the publishing houses, and the ear of the kings of the nations.  Today, we see their ears along with their faces, in the White House and the Senate and the House and all of the state capitols.  Because the truth is out.  They can no longer pretend, so they have come out of the shadows where they lived unseen by jonny for millennia… and now their kingdom comes...  Jonny won't make it out alive, BTW.

--edited to add--
As to the complete genocide of their entire race:  You've never read the OT, have you?  But you must have heard of the Domionists.  They think it's up to them to get everything ready for when Jesus comes back... despite what God says about doing it Himself.  So, when the Irgun hit the ground running in Palestine, they acted like Joshua was at their head, and killed them all in Deir Yassin... letting the Arabs connect the dots between these two conquests of Canaan.  And that slow murder stealthy genocide goes unchecked today.  Despite the laws against all of the things Israelis are known to have done, despite the outrage of the rest of the world... because the US and the Israelis seem to know that you cannot make a contract with a phantom, that the UN has no land to make it binding. 
     That will change when Jerusalem is made the capitol of the world:  is my best guess today.

And the second half of your "genocide of race" theory is a question: Which race?  The Sephardic Mediterranean type, or the Ashkenazi Nordic type?  Not only do they look different, they even have different genetic diseases.  The so-called Ashkenazi Jews have Mongoloidisms... Judah was never a Mongoloid, no matter what you've been led to believe, sq.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 01:49:59 PM by akaspooky »
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2017, 02:11:51 PM »
A lot of this comes from the majority of American evangelical Protestants believing in the doctrine of Dispensationalism

I believe the bible teaches There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
...
I don't believe the dispensation doctrine of Christ returning to earth to do animal sacrifices again and to physically rain on the world from Israel.

Many Christians believe GOD is going to destroy the physical world completely, I believe this is a misunderstanding of the language of the Bible.

You disbelieve Dispensationalism... but you quote the man who wrote the letters which created the doctrine itself.  It's not Darby's fault, it's the fault of Bible canon... the ones who put Saul of Tarsus in the Bible.

And what's worse, you go on to say that you don't believe Jesus is coming back... and that you don't believe any one of the prophecies which say that Jesus will return and that Jesus [and His Father] will rule from Jerusalem.

Thanks for this, 6996.  Seriously.  I don't know what made you write it, but I'm smiling for the rest of the day.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2017, 07:57:43 PM »
A lot of this comes from the majority of American evangelical Protestants

I bet that's an evil "white mans" church?


They see the Book of Revelation and the Book of Daniel in a literal, physical, apocalyptic, and global context.

I don't believe Christ returning to earth to physically rain on the world from Israel.

The leftist Bible is certainly different from the standard.

I don't mean to hurt your feelings, singlequestionmark, but you seem to be a tad naive.

You won't. I think the same thing about you sometimes. I'll admit that I have a decided preference for reality.

It's predictable.


Just to name a few of the things you've missed, in the MO chain of events:
Which led to the false history .. a history given by the completely biased and complicit, W1kipedia.

I haven't missed them. I just think that a conspiracy on the scale you imagine simply could not have been pulled off, or kept an absolute secret for millennia. I just don't believe that every record could have been destroyed, every witness exterminated, every single conspirator kept loyal for thousands of years. We're talking about tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of humans, over many many centuries. The average human can't keep a secret until he gets home from work!

And until very recently, the science of psychologically screening potential conspirators was in it's primitive infancy.

I will admit that there are, and were people who would have done something similar if it was possible. But I don't share your irrational suspicion of all Jews. As far as I can tell, evil is an equal opportunity employer, though it does disproportionately seem to cloak itself in religion. 
 
Which led to the false history .. a history given by the completely biased and complicit, W1kipedia.
But the fact is that the web is controlled by groups like g00gle and yah00, etc. ad nauseum, which control what comes up on those thousands of searches.

I will admit that electronic media can be compromised. But you will have to admit that such media are a very recent phenomenon. Yahoo and Google can't travel back in time(I don't think) to destroy physical records in thousands of locations worldwide. Many lost to history and only recently, or even still waiting, to be discovered. Too big, too far flung, too impossible of a conspiracy.

Too unlikely.

--edited to add--
As to the complete genocide of their entire race:  You've never read the OT, have you? 

Well, in fact I have - and do. But to be fair, I do not recall ever reading of the Arabs threatening to annihilate all Israelis in those times - or even the single tribe of Jews. It's a confusing series of books and I could have missed it. But in any case, it would have been an empty threat, considering the weapons of the time.

Judah was never a Mongoloid, no matter what you've been led to believe, sq.

I am a little curious as to what would make you think that I had been "led to believe" such.

Regardless of any of this other stuff, I will agree that the UN is the cause of all of this. Even though the land that they gave them was a stretch of desert that nobody else even wanted at the time, they should have made the Germans give up ninety miles of territory for the Jews to have a country. It was they, after all, and not the Arabs, who had committed the crimes against the Jews(or in your reality were accused of committing the crimes) Had they done so, an enormous amount of strife and warfare could have been easily avoided. This apparent "mistake" is the one thing that keeps me from dismissing your conspiracy theory completely out of hand. 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 08:09:16 PM by ? »

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2017, 08:13:00 PM »
You disbelieve Dispensationalism... but you quote the man who wrote the letters which created the doctrine itself.  It's not Darby's fault, it's the fault of Bible canon... the ones who put Saul of Tarsus in the Bible.

And what's worse, you go on to say that you don't believe Jesus is coming back... and that you don't believe any one of the prophecies which say that Jesus will return and that Jesus [and His Father] will rule from Jerusalem.

Thanks for this, 6996.  Seriously.  I don't know what made you write it, but I'm smiling for the rest of the day.

Not sure why it makes you smile knowing this but ok.

I believe Paul's writings are biblical like the rest of the Bible, that might be where we differ.


You might look up preterism, or Ipreterist, Partial Preterists, Full Preterism.

I believe every word in the original bible is true, I don't agree with all interpretations of those words. I was brought up in churches that taught dispensationalism. I like all others don't have a 100% understanding of the Bible, but from the bulk of Scripture, I lean towards the preterist view.

I'm aware of both views and the dispensationalist view have huge problems with verses like

Matthew 24:34 – “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

Matthew 16:28 And I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die before they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom."
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 08:19:08 PM by 6996 »
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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2017, 12:43:55 PM »
Not sure why it makes you smile knowing this but ok.

I believe Paul's writings are biblical like the rest of the Bible, that might be where we differ.


You might look up preterism, or Ipreterist, Partial Preterists, Full Preterism.

I believe every word in the original bible is true, I don't agree with all interpretations of those words. I was brought up in churches that taught dispensationalism. I like all others don't have a 100% understanding of the Bible, but from the bulk of Scripture, I lean towards the preterist view.

I'm aware of both views and the dispensationalist view have huge problems with verses like

Matthew 24:34 – “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

Matthew 16:28 And I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die before they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom."

I'm smiling because your days of proclaiming yourself a follower of Christ have reached their end by your own doing.  But your days of being a follower of Paul have not... and it is his followers who were first called Christians... if we can believe the fatally flawed book of Acts.  I personally can't, simply because whomever that historian was, his testimony doesn't match the Gospels, pertaining to the advent of the Holy Spirit... and then there's those 3 different versions of the conversion of Saul of Tarsus.

I might not have to look up preterism or Ipreterist or Partial Preterists or Full Preterism, 6996.  I might have already done so and tossed them all aside.  Man-made definitions, coupled with worldly man's interpretations of the words of Jesus don't interest me anymore.  Nor do the actions of a few councils in Rome determine for me what is and what is not the Word of God.  You say you believe every word in the bible is true, but you let man tell you what word went into that bible.  And you point me to definitions in the theologies that I studied for 25 years... as though that might change my mind. I'm still going to be smiling all day today, too, 6996.

I know what the so-called Paul wrote... and therefore, I know that what Darby said came from Paul.

The generation in Matthew 24 means what it means everywhere else it's been translated as such:  Genea is genetics, genetics is race.  This race shall not pass untill all these things be fulfilled.

Matthew 16 is a little trickier.  For that, you need to see it in the original language of Greek.

It's Latinized {taken out of the Greek characters} as qanatoV... in that particular form of the word. 

http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/B66C006.htm#V8

The same word is found here, capitalized:

Revelation 6:8 "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

In this next verse it's qanatw followed by teleutatw... meaning die the death.

http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/B40C015.htm#V4

Revelation 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."

The word order of Greek isn't the same as that of English.  Clearly, death in Greek isn't one word.  The rider on the pale horse is followed by what is known as the second death in the New Testament. 

In other words, 6996, Jesus said that some standing there would not die and be eternally dead... that some would rise to eternal life.

Even if you don't have the time or the patience to learn Greek, you can in fact know what Jesus actually says... but I would only START with online interlinear Greek English... since online can be changed by the website's owner [some phrases simply will not show up in a search, on the links I've given you], or the pages can be hacked.  archivedotorg has several interlinear Greek English Testaments... two of which are these:

https://archive.org/details/InterlinearGreekEnglishSeptuagintOldTestamentPrint
https://archive.org/details/InterlinearGreekEnglishNewTestamentWithParallelHebrewAndSyriac

I hope this helps you, 6996.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 12:54:32 PM by akaspooky »
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Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2017, 02:39:01 PM »
I haven't missed them. I just think that a conspiracy on the scale you imagine simply could not have been pulled off, or kept an absolute secret for millennia. I just don't believe that every record could have been destroyed, every witness exterminated, every single conspirator kept loyal for thousands of years. We're talking about tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of humans, over many many centuries. The average human can't keep a secret until he gets home from work!

And until very recently, the science of psychologically screening potential conspirators was in it's primitive infancy.

That's the problem, singlequestionmark... they haven't been kept secret.  People used to talk about it... very high up people used to talk about it.  Presidents, even.  I used to think the same things you do about it.  And believe me when I tell you, the sick panic that I felt for such a full-blown chessboard made me want to run away from what my mind couldn't let go.  But fear doesn't shut down strong people, it wakes them up.

And... who would be the one deemed sane enough to perform such tests?  I've taken a psych course... I'm not impressed by multiple choice finals... or the sort of people who make Psychology their major.  At best, it's a tool that will wrench your ability to protect yourself out of your cold deadened hands.  But some people were even thrown into federal insane assylums, for speaking out during the world wars, BTW.  And THESE were the types of people who talked about the conspiracy... and named the conspirators.  Or they were threatened and their families were killed.  Lessons learned, for the masses.  Orwell wasn't wrong... and he didn't write fiction.


I will admit that there are, and were people who would have done something similar if it was possible. But I don't share your irrational suspicion of all Jews. As far as I can tell, evil is an equal opportunity employer, though it does disproportionately seem to cloak itself in religion. 

I have said several times that I don't suspect all Jews of anything, and nobody believes me.  The seem to think that I judge the whole religious mass for the deeds of their Talmudists.  But most Jews aren't even religious.  What they are is controlled by the Pharisees.  They are made to either conform and cough up the dough, or get kicked out of Judaism.  And since many people who are truly racists not only think that Jews are in fact a race but that all Jews are part of the problem... the Jews as a whole are tarred by the same brush, so they're afraid for their lives if they don't conform, and get kicked out.
    For myself, I pity the people who are made to do what they don't want to do by the rulers of their cult and/or government.  And I know that the leaders don't care at all for the sheep:  they sacrifice them wholesale, like it's atonement day in Las Vegas.


I will admit that electronic media can be compromised. But you will have to admit that such media are a very recent phenomenon. Yahoo and Google can't travel back in time(I don't think) to destroy physical records in thousands of locations worldwide. Many lost to history and only recently, or even still waiting, to be discovered. Too big, too far flung, too impossible of a conspiracy.

Physical records go away because the paper they're written on decays into dust... even under the best of conditions.  And libraries don't have to replace the books that get checked out and never returned.  Search engines only capture what they want to capture: the difference between what shows up in one engine vs another is paaages long.  And even then, there's spycraft to consider.  If it was worthwhile listening to conversations 'round the clock ever anywhere, then it's always worthwile everywhere.  With governments, what gets "phased out" tends to morph rather than disappear.  And the people who used to do it for a living are looking for a way to keep doing it when they change jobs.  Some content themselves with industrial spying and counterfeiting, some do wet work, and some twist the arms of presidents.


Well, in fact I have - and do. But to be fair, I do not recall ever reading of the Arabs threatening to annihilate all Israelis in those times - or even the single tribe of Jews. It's a confusing series of books and I could have missed it. But in any case, it would have been an empty threat, considering the weapons of the time.

No, the Hebrews were supposedly told to kill everything that moved.  That happened in Deir Yassen.  The Arabs were brought up on the same set of books, and knew what Israelis were going to be doing from that moment on.  And they have... including murdering the British people who were keeping the peace. I guess the British must have thought that Eastern pack of animals would need their help in controlling the people who worked peacefully with Lawrence of Arabia... why? I don't know. 

And yes, again, they were not ALL part of that pack of animals... some were dropped into leaky boats by force, and virtually left shipwrecked in Palestine.  But the Irgun had its sisters, and Bolshevism isn't a peaceful cult.  The poor people who were caught in the net, as today, have no choice.


I am a little curious as to what would make you think that I had been "led to believe" such.

Because not all people who call themselves Jews are Semites.  The crowd in the stripped pjs certainly weren't, not for the most part.  All of the faces I saw in that crowd were mostly Turks.  And since all of the Jews weren't even made to leave government positions in Germany, I'm guessing those ones weren't the Communist hordes that were being sent into Germany from Poland and Russia.


Regardless of any of this other stuff, I will agree that the UN is the cause of all of this. Even though the land that they gave them was a stretch of desert that nobody else even wanted at the time, they should have made the Germans give up ninety miles of territory for the Jews to have a country. It was they, after all, and not the Arabs, who had committed the crimes against the Jews(or in your reality were accused of committing the crimes) Had they done so, an enormous amount of strife and warfare could have been easily avoided. This apparent "mistake" is the one thing that keeps me from dismissing your conspiracy theory completely out of hand.

Why on God's green earth should the Germans have been made to give the disease-ridden anarchists that were pouring in from the East "ninety miles of territory"?  Isn't it bad enough that the on-again-off-again Bolshevik bestest-buddies/worst-enemies conspired with America to carve Germany into bite-sized pieces?  And they made their intention clear during the supposed settlement of WWI. 
     And to cover up their firestorm genocides, rapes, thefts, etc. ad nauseum, the Communists-in-Russia and the Communists-in-American fabricated the holocaust out of whole cloth.  For instance, the so-called body-soap and lamp-skin were known and shown to be fakes very early on. 
     But the world has moved on, and who remembers a few one-liners from way back when... compared to the daily onslaught of moaning and wringing of hands over the non-remains of what amounts to a very miniscule amount of the total of the WWII victims?  Whatever happened to no body no crime?  In point of fact, autopsies were carried out, and the cause was typhus and starvation... both of which can be easily explained by the failure of bombed-out transportation systems.  That and because of the black marketeers and assorted other criminals who were turned out of the Bolshevik prisons as soldiers... and then caught as POWs.
     Russia alone gave up 66 million of her Russians to the Communist gulags... a fact which only Solzhenitsyn seems to have had the ability and courage to report [I'm wondering, have you heard of it?].  How many people even heard of, much less remember, the death-by-starvation practiced upon the Ukrainians by the Bolsheviks?  And when should they be expecting to obtain the reparations due them?  The first of never.

Not very much of this history has ever made it to the big screen, has it?  No wonder nobody knows about it.  The attention span and interest is never captured for very long, in the minds of the captive audience... especially when it has to shout down the endless droning history of the victors.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline Tyrone

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2017, 07:31:18 PM »
OK, let me see if I'm getting this.  According to you the Bolsheviks and the Jews are buddies and always have been.  The Bolsheviks are the Russians.  Right?  The Jews you're talking about are the ones now occupying that space called Israel.  Right?  So how come the Russians(Bolsheviks) are allies of  countries like Iran who want to destroy Israel (Jews)???

                                                                                                                                 
MSM -  Monkey Fists Matter.  Larrup a Liberal with a Monkey Fist.

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2017, 04:51:43 AM »
Why on earth should the Germans have been made to give them "ninety miles of territory"?

Well, for one they lost the war. But you are trying to change the subject here.

Suppose that your neighbor is accused of beating his wife. The courts rule against him, but award the wife your house!

Now, whether the man really did beat his wife, or whether she mounted an international conspiracy to frame him for it is irrelevant to my point. The courts have no business giving your house as a concession to either of them.

The excuse for giving the Jews any territory was that they had been abused by the Germans. Therefore, if anyone should have given them territory, it should have been the Germans.

Whether or not that was "fair" to the Germans, does not affect the fact that had that happened, there would have been no one for the Arabs to attack - or be "provoked" by.

That was my point.

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2017, 02:33:38 PM »
OK, let me see if I'm getting this.  According to you the Bolsheviks and the Jews are buddies and always have been.  The Bolsheviks are the Russians.  Right?  The Jews you're talking about are the ones now occupying that space called Israel.  Right?  So how come the Russians(Bolsheviks) are allies of  countries like Iran who want to destroy Israel (Jews)???                                                                                                                   

You keep missing the part where I say that I don't lump all "Jews" together... how can I when not all of them are the Hebrew body type, and not all of them are religious either?  Some people who called themselves Jews were Bolsheviks, yes.  In fact, the leaders of every revolution that happened in Europe during that period of time also called themselves Jews.  And some of the people in Palestine are of Hebrew bloodlines, including Palestinians. 
     But some of the Israelis are clearly not of Mediterranean descent... and they even tell you they're Ashkenazi.  Not only because the Jews seem to be unanimously said to reflect the races of the nations in which they dwell, but because Koestler and Dunlop are not wrong... nor is the Jewish Encyclopedia, BTW.  All three will tell you that Khazars and Edomites are within that single entity called Jewish.  Jewish is not a race.  And it doesn't seem to be a political faction, either, since not all Jews are Bolsheviks.

Nor are the Bolsheviks Russians, since the Bolsheviks are the foreigners who entered their country, murdered their king and his entire family [Wilton, Last Days of the Romanovs], and sentenced 66 million Russians to death by gulag.  What you're saying means Europeans need to be called Cherokees now. 

Nor do I believe that it's Iran who wants to destroy Israel, since the other way around can already be demonstrated... by the wars that are being carried on in aid of Israel... and in your own language, Tyrone.  You seem to be one of those people who think that not blessing Israel means not blessing Abraham and the Israelites... when Israelites and Israelis are not even related by religion or race. 
     God gave no mandate to whomever the Israelis are, to kill the Palestinians... they gave it to themselves.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2017, 03:29:19 PM »
Well, for one they lost the war. But you are trying to change the subject here.

While I agree that WWII was carried on because of the Jews, I don't think the world in general knows that, so it would not accept your illegal "land by right of conquest."  It's bad enough that the so-called displaced persons were lodged in the homes of murdered Germans, Foreign Governments stole whatever they could get away with taking out from under the Germans who weren't firestorm-melted to the streets, and Foreign Soldiers looted the rest [with the aid of their transport systems], without handing Germany over along with a land contract to the behind-the-scenes event controlers.


The excuse for giving the Jews any territory was that they had been abused by the Germans. Therefore, if anyone should have given them territory, it should have been the Germans.

In fact, singlequestionmark, Brandeis said that the Jews in Germany were to go to Palestine no matter what the British White Paper said about immigration.  And the Germans were helping them break that law.  It's not like Germany didn't know what was going to happen... it had happened recently.  France, England, and Russia would again squeeze Germany, making living conditions for Germans who couldn't leave intollerable... and they helped the Jews to leave... THIS is what's known as the Final Solution.
     
Because like it or not, there is no German document that says anything else was planned.  There are, though, many documents about the Germans treating the diseases of the Jews... A very odd thing, if the plan was death by deisel... or mass murder by any method, actually.  The people who think that the untold thousands who escaped the slaughter, many of them several times, had no reason to lie about what happened... are as naive as babies in a sandbox.

The illegality of the trial of Germany at the hands of the victors is without dispute to those who are fair minded.  The very people who were known to have targeted civilian residential areas with firestorms are hardly the right people to be talking of war crimes.  And BTW, there ARE proofs of the cause of THEIR deaths.  There are even piles of shoes and wedding rings... and corpses which often get relabeled.

Nobody seems to be able to think straight when they hear the word holocaust... like it's the diner bell to Pavlov's dog.  They never even seem to suspect that they might be played for fools.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2017, 03:40:48 PM »
And the most interesting thing about this thread is that nobody else
     seems to care that Judea started the war on all of Germany.



They've all calmly sailed past the proof of the crime,
     as though some part of them knows it already.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2017, 04:46:16 PM »
So says the Holocaust denier.  Absolutely no credibility, and if anyone would care to reread what has been posted in the past, one would see that this person changes her mind and jumps the fence about every six months. 

I guess it's:

I came into this world screaming, soaked in someone else's blood......I have NO problem going out the same way.

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2017, 05:23:06 PM »
It's like you all came from the same factory where THIS is framed in gold,
     over each and every assembly line:

____________________________________________________________________
Anti-Semitism

"It is a trick; we always use it.
When, from Europe, if someone is criticizing Israel, we bring up the Holocaust.
When, in this country (USA), people are criticizing Israel then 'they are anti-Semitic.'

It is very easy to blame people who criticize certain acts
of the Israeli government as anti-Semitic and to bring up the Holocaust
and the suffering of the Jewish people
and that 'justifies' everything we do to the Palestinians."
____________________________________________________________________
--Shulamit Aloni, Israeli minister, Democracy Now, August 2002


____________
I may have to get this laminated, to keep from wearing it... just out on roadrunner alone.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2017, 05:26:24 PM »
Crazy is still crazy, no matter how you try to demonize the person who pointed out you're crazy. 
I came into this world screaming, soaked in someone else's blood......I have NO problem going out the same way.

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2017, 05:34:22 PM »
Or I could just use something like THIS next time:

    Let's call this card
Policy of the Unseen Hand
________________________________________________________
"Western powers should guide enemies to stalemate
by helping whichever side is losing, so as to prolong their conflict.
This policy has precedent.

Through most of World War II, Nazi Germany was on the offensive
against Soviet Russia and keeping German troops
tied down on the Eastern Front was critical to an Allied victory.
Franklin D. Roosevelt therefore helped Joseph Stalin
by provisioning his forces and coordinating the war effort with him.

In retrospect, this morally repugnant
but strategically necessary policy succeeded.
And Stalin was a far worse monster than Assad."
_______________________________________________________
--Daniel Pipes

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2017, 08:06:40 PM »
Bill making it a federal crime to support BDS sends shockwaves through progressive community

"There is only one story in the news, for followers of the Israel/Palestine conflict, and that is Glenn Greenwald and Ryan Grim’s report at the Intercept yesterday on new legislation in the Congress that would criminalize support for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS). Yes, criminalize.

The bill is such a crude example of overreach by the Israel lobby that it is sure to backfire on its supporters as Greenwald and Grim’s report ricochets around the Democratic Party…"
https://mohandeer.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/bill-making-it-a-federal-crime-to-support-bds-sends-shockwaves-through-progressive-community/

Once again, let it be noted that the merits of a boycott are quite aside from the ability to express an opinion one way or the other. 


Also, please note that Greenwald, mentioned above, is an ethnic Jew.    ( I have no idea if he is a practicing one.)   Apparently he values liberty, values freedom of speech above any misguidedly blind loyalty to a foreign state, even one that shares his religious affiliation. 

If we are banned from having a bad opinion, how long before we are banned from having a good one?  Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves, and Alexander Solzenhitzen as well. 

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2017, 02:00:38 PM »
Once again, let it be noted that the merits of a boycott are quite aside from the ability to express an opinion one way or the other. 


Also, please note that Greenwald, mentioned above, is an ethnic Jew.    ( I have no idea if he is a practicing one.)   Apparently he values liberty, values freedom of speech above any misguidedly blind loyalty to a foreign state, even one that shares his religious affiliation. 

If we are banned from having a bad opinion, how long before we are banned from having a good one?  Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves, and Alexander Solzenhitzen as well.

This is the point I've been trying to make for years, albeit clumsily. 

People should be allowed to do what doesn't injure another person... and I don't mean hurts their feelings or curtails their ability to buy and sell to the whole world whether that member of world likes them personally or not. 

The freedoms of this country are based on the right of free association as well as free speech... the two walk hand in hand.  When you begin to dictate to people what they are to believe along with what they can and cannot do, you have become the tyrant of the world.

In Europe, Holocau$t denial [roadrunner term, above] is punishable by imprisonment.  And Europe will now be forced to buy and sell with Israel, just as they have been forced to treat the Holocau$t as their only religion. 
     And the same will soon be said of America... they've had to move more carefully here because they have to allow us to have guns in order to kill each other off for them... that and the fact that they have too many of their people still camped out on our soil.

As for good and bad opinions, who gets to decide what's good or bad?  The people who wrote the Talmud are content with saying that non-Jews are cattle, only good for the use of the Jews.  Sorry... asked and answered:  Jews=good, Goyim=bad... if these laws continue to have their way with us, the rumors of America's Concentration Camps will be rumors no more.

This legislation reaches into every corner of your life, and if you dismiss it, you do so at great peril.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline 6996

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2017, 04:33:26 PM »

I'm smiling because your days of proclaiming yourself a follower of Christ have reached their end by your own doing.

The generation in Matthew 24 means what it means everywhere else it's been translated as such:  Genea is genetics, genetics is race.  This race shall not pass untill all these things be fulfilled.

Matthew 16 is a little trickier.  For that, you need to see it in the original language of Greek.

It's Latinized {taken out of the Greek characters} as qanatoV... in that particular form of the word. 

http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/B66C006.htm#V8

The same word is found here, capitalized:

Revelation 6:8 "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

In this next verse it's qanatw followed by teleutatw... meaning die the death.

http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/B40C015.htm#V4

Revelation 15:4 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."

The word order of Greek isn't the same as that of English.  Clearly, death in Greek isn't one word.  The rider on the pale horse is followed by what is known as the second death in the New Testament. 

In other words, 6996, Jesus said that some standing there would not die and be eternally dead... that some would rise to eternal life.


Like I stated, I'm not claiming to be an expert on the bible but believe it and its original entirety to be the perfect word of GOD.  I believe there are truly honest Christians believing different doctrines.  They still agree with some essential foundational Christian beliefs but differ on some finer points. I believe the dispensationalist view for years, my family members and most Christians I know believe in the futurist view.

There are True Christians believing in both views.  From what I can tell, the bulk of the Scriptures supports that most biblical prophecies have been fulfilled. Reading the Bible with the presuppositions of future events had me looking at verses certain ways to make them fit. Now without that presupposition, I find verses are more in harmony.

Some groups claim the Jesus of the Bible was a false prophet because he prophesied he would return soon, and he didn't.

I know this isn't the Pulpit section but on the two objections you mentioned, on the death, Jesus spoke about in Matthew 16, you say HE was speaking of eternal death, the second death.

Okay, let's see why that wouldn't fit or harmonize with GOD'S word.  That view would mean Jesus was saying, there are some here who will die the second death before I return to judge them for the second death. You can see where that wouldn't fit. According to Revaluation 20, a trial and judgment must occur before the punishment of the second death.

Jesus was saying no man knows exactly when I'm coming back, but it will be in this generation. Maybe not in the next few years, but soon enough where some standing here right now will be living when I return in judgment, AD70.

The Bible isn't written to us, but for us. We look at it applying to our modern lives, we should look at the language being used and the receipent 

All through the bible, GOD gives parables about HIM sending prophets and HIS Son to the HIS chose people, and how they beat and killed them, and how HE would take vengeance on that particular people. Jesus cared deeply about his followers in that day, and told them when to flew to the mountains

Matthew 24:15
15 “So, when you see the horrible thing[a] (told about by Daniel* the prophet) standing in a holy place (Note to the reader: You know what is meant!*),  then those in Judea must flee into the Judean hills.

Dispensationalist has all these atrocities happening to all mankind in the future when most of this is prophecies fulfilled concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the old covenant, that world system was ending.

   Matthew 16:27: Jesus said he would come in the glory of his father, with his angels, to judge every man. The normal response to this is that it "obviously" must be speaking of the end of time. "Jesus has not come and judged every man has he?" we are asked. To answer this we must see that Jesus did in fact predict not only the fact of judgment of all but he said it would happen in his generation.

     In Matthew 23:29ff Jesus said that all the dead all the way back to creation would be judged in that generation. In Matthew 13 he spoke of the end of the age when the righteous would shine like the stars. The wicked would be condemned at that time also. Daniel 12:1-7, the prophecy upon which Jesus' words are based, tells us it would be fulfilled "when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered."

     Peter tells us that Jesus was "ready to judge the living and the dead" when he wrote 1 Peter 4:5; and Revelation 11 tells us that the time had come for the judgment of the living and the dead.

     Finally, in Revelation 21:12 Jesus quoted the very words he had uttered some thirty years earlier: "Behold I come quickly, and my reward is with me to reward every man according to his work." Now unless Revelation is speaking of a different "judgment of all" from the "judgment of all" in Matthew we must believe the subject to be the same. Revelation, no less than five times tells us the events under view are imminent. Matthew 16:27-28 has a certain time-frame limit, i.e., "some standing here shall not die till they see the Son of Man coming...." Matthew speaks of the coming of Jesus to judge every man. Revelation does also. Matthew says Jesus would come in that generation. Revelation says he was coming quickly. Where is the delineation between the two?

When Daniel wrote, he didn't say the time was near because I believe it was about 600 years afar,  Jesus wouldn't say the time is at hand and I come quickly if it was 2000 years afar like now. We're in the Christian age, this age doesn't come to an end. More to say, little time, but this is truly good news.


 https://www.preteristarchive.com/Hyper/0000_preston_critical-text.html
A little Socialism on the Left is better than a little fascism on the Right.

Offline roadrunner

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2017, 06:03:41 PM »
Quit copy and pasting anything from the Bible.  You ain't no damn Christian.  At. All.
I came into this world screaming, soaked in someone else's blood......I have NO problem going out the same way.

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2017, 08:28:51 PM »
he prophesied he would return soon, and he didn't.

we should look at the language being used and the receipent
 
It's too bad that you refuse to take your own advice, 6996.  ::)

The same Greek word "tacu" is translated as "quickly" in both of these verses:

Revelation 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward [is] with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRGRK50.htm#S5035

And behold, I come SUDDENLY... 

In other words, without warning, when you don't expect it...
Letting the Bible define the Bible is the best thing you can ever do for yourself.
It ranks right up there with actually looking "at the language being used".


The Bible isn't written to us, but for us.

Jesus tells His handpicked disciples to teach all nations what He has taught them. 

You either recognize the nature of Jesus or you don't... nobody can teach it to you... obviously.


I know this isn't the Pulpit section but on the two objections you mentioned, on the death, Jesus spoke about in Matthew 16, you say HE was speaking of eternal death, the second death.

That view would mean Jesus was saying, there are some here who will die the second death before I return to judge them for the second death.

You're no better at understanding what I say than you are at believing what Jesus says.

Timing is everything, BTW.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2017, 05:34:01 PM »
You haven't addressed the time issue, so Jesus would come quickly or suddenly, HE said no man knows exactly when HE would return to judge HIS people, but soon in THIS generations before all HIS disciples died.

Again, the Bible wasn't written to 6996, akaspooky of Wisconsin or anybody else living but it is written for us. It was written to particular people of that day in their language. I would agree the Bible is its own interpreter. The Bible says you have to rightly divide the word of truth, harmonizing the scriptures, showing who they fit.

Matthew 23:33-36
33 Snakes! Sons of vipers! How shall you escape the judgment of hell?

34 “I will send you prophets, and wise men, and inspired writers, and you will kill some by crucifixion, and rip open the backs of others with whips in your synagogues, and hound them from city to city, so that you will become guilty of all the blood of murdered godly men from righteous Abel to Zechariah (son of Barachiah), slain by you in the Temple between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, all the accumulated judgment of the centuries shall break upon the heads of this very generation.


Jesus predicting HE will return to judge the people responsible for these sins in HIS generation.

God said to Abraham that after 400 years He would deliver Israel, "...in the fourth generation". A generation in the Bible is normally 40 years. However, here a generation is 100 years (4 * 100 = 400 years). This is understood by virtue of the fact that Abraham had his promised child when he was exactly 100 years old (Gen. 21:5); it is evident, therefore, that the age of a man when his first child is born is the raw definition of a generation.

Nevertheless, notice that the full number (400 years) is exactly ten-times that of a regular generation of 40 years. Both 100 years and 40 years are a generation in the Bible. However, the average of these two, 70 years, is on occasion also found in the bible, (Psalm 90:10). But "70 years" is a generation according to the average age of a man at his death, rather then when his first child is born (as with the example of Abraham).

 

40 + 100 = 140 years. 140 ÷ 2 = 70-years as a generation.

(Significantly, king David died at age 70, and reigned 40 years.)

Book of Isaiah speaks of that same prophecy

Isaiah 40:10-11
10 Yes, the Lord God is coming with mighty power; he will rule with awesome strength. See, his reward is with him, to each as he has done. 11 He will feed his flock like a shepherd; he will carry the lambs in his arms and gently lead the ewes with young.

Matthew 3:7-12


Here in Jesus's day, John the Baptist predicts the prophecy we speak of about to be fulfilled.

7 But when he saw many Pharisees[a] and Sadducees* coming to be baptized, he denounced them.

“You sons of snakes!” he warned. “Who said that you could escape the coming wrath of God? 8 Before being baptized, prove that you have turned from sin by doing worthy deeds. 9 Don’t try to get by as you are, thinking, ‘We are safe for we are Jews—descendants of Abraham.’ That proves nothing. God can change these stones here into Jews!

10 “And even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised to chop down every unproductive tree. They will be chopped and burned.

11 “With water[c] I baptize those who repent of their sins; but someone else is coming, far greater than I am, so great that I am not worthy to carry his shoes! He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit* and with fire. 12 He will separate the chaff from the grain, burning the chaff with never-ending fire and storing away the grain.



When rightly divided, it fits the time issue. The Bible is its own interpreter.

Isaiah 56:1
 Notice that the prophet calls his reader’s attention to far off things “look to Abraham your father.” That was far off in the past. And, Abraham saw the fulfillment of his promises “far off” (Heb. 11:13f). So, we have the use of both “far off” and “nigh” being used. This presents a dilemma for those who say that at hand does not mean anything! If “at hand” means a long time, what does “a long time” mean. Also, I think that Isaiah 46:13 comes into direct play here. God said “I will bring my salvation near, it will be nigh.” So, we have projected imminence clearly stated in the context concerning that promised salvation.

Joel 3:14-17 (verse 14) My Response, Don K.— There could not be a clearer example of projected imminence than Joel! Notice that in chapters 1-2 we have the repeated statement that the day of the Lord was near (1:15; 2:1, 10). However, in v. 28 we are told “afterward” or “in the last days” there would be another Day of the Lord. There are two Days present! One was near, one was not. So, the writer in 2:28f-3:21 describes what would happen in the last days. In the last days (note 3:1:”in those days and at that time”), when the last days arrived, “the Day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.” Very clearly, Joel did not see himself or his audience as living in the last days. However, Peter did see his generation as living in those days!!!  (Acts 2:17f—the days foretold by Joel!!) So, the projected imminence of Joel is established by both Joel and Peter, in unmistakable terms. Consider also Peter’s statement in 1 Peter 1:10f. He emphatically said that the eschatology foretold by the OT prophets, the salvation to come at the parousia, was not for their day, and that they were told it was not for their day! Now, if Kevin Hartley and others who seek to destroy the meaning of time words is right, then how in the world did God communicate that truth to those O. T. prophets? God said the last days, the judgment and resurrection were “not near,” those events were not for the prophets’ day.

But, if time statements from God do not mean anything, how could the prophets know that “not at hand” really didn’t mean, “It is near!” The fact that Joel, and the other O. T. prophets foretold the last days, and events for the last days, saying that when the last days arrived that the Day of the Lord would be near, is prima facie proof that the time statements were to be taken objectively and normally. And, the fact that the N. T. writers emphatically say that they were in the last days foretold by the O. T. prophets demands, without doubt, that the time statements of the N.T. must be taken seriously. The O. T. prophets said that when the Last Days arrived, the Day of the Lord would be near. The Last Days foretold by the O. T. prophets had arrived in the first century (Acts 2:15f). Therefore, the Day of the Lord was near in the first century.

 Notice that the prophet calls his reader’s attention to far off things “look to Abraham your father.” That was far off in the past. And, Abraham saw the fulfillment of his promises “far off” (Heb. 11:13f). So, we have the use of both “far off” and “nigh” being used. This presents a dilemma for those who say that at hand does not mean anything! If “at hand” means a long time, what does “a long time” mean. Also, I think that Isaiah 46:13 comes into direct play here. God said “I will bring my salvation near, it will be nigh.” So, we have projected imminence clearly stated in the context concerning that promised salvation.

Joel 3:14-17 (verse 14) My Response, Don K.— There could not be a clearer example of projected imminence than Joel! Notice that in chapters 1-2 we have the repeated statement that the day of the Lord was near (1:15; 2:1, 10). However, in v. 28 we are told “afterward” or “in the last days” there would be another Day of the Lord. There are two Days present! One was near, one was not. So, the writer in 2:28f-3:21 describes what would happen in the last days. In the last days (note 3:1:”in those days and at that time”), when the last days arrived, “the Day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.” Very clearly, Joel did not see himself or his audience as living in the last days. However, Peter did see his generation as living in those days!!!  (Acts 2:17f—the days foretold by Joel!!) So, the projected imminence of Joel is established by both Joel and Peter, in unmistakable terms. Consider also Peter’s statement in 1 Peter 1:10f. He emphatically said that the eschatology foretold by the OT prophets, the salvation to come at the parousia, was not for their day, and that they were told it was not for their day! Now, if Kevin Hartley and others who seek to destroy the meaning of time words is right, then how in the world did God communicate that truth to those O. T. prophets? God said the last days, the judgment and resurrection were “not near,” those events were not for the prophets’ day.

But, if time statements from God do not mean anything, how could the prophets know that “not at hand” really didn’t mean, “It is near!” The fact that Joel, and the other O. T. prophets foretold the last days, and events for the last days, saying that when the last days arrived that the Day of the Lord would be near, is prima facie proof that the time statements were to be taken objectively and normally. And, the fact that the N. T. writers emphatically say that they were in the last days foretold by the O. T. prophets demands, without doubt, that the time statements of the N.T. must be taken seriously. The O. T. prophets said that when the Last Days arrived, the Day of the Lord would be near. The Last Days foretold by the O. T. prophets had arrived in the first century (Acts 2:15f). Therefore, the Day of the Lord was near in the first century.

So the O. T. prophets would say an event was not at hand or far off when the events were 500 years away, but use the word at hand or near when the event was soon. The question would be, if 500 years is far off, how can Jesus saying HE would return soon be over 2000 years and counting? it doesn't fit.

In Matthew 24:15 Jesus states The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about 9. you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers 18 A person out in the field must not return even to get a coat. 19How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for nursing mothers in those days. 20And pray that your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath

All these things were written to Jews in the first century, none of the millions of Christian who died will ever experience this, the Bible is written to for us, not to us. Dispensationalists put these events in the future for Christians and the world to experience, but it doesn't fit the scriptures.

Isaiah connected the acceptable year of the Lord with the day of vengeance of our God (Is 61:1-3).Jesus returning in Judgment to wreak vengeance on the people reasonable for killing the son of GOD. A particular people were coming under Judgment at that time, some will say GOD is long suffering from his vengeance, it's been over 2000 years, all those people are dead now.

Ecclesiastes 8:11
Because sentence against an evil deed is not carried out quickly, the heart of humans fills up within them to do evil.

Proverbs 13:12
Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a dream fulfilled is a tree of life.
 
I know it's a lot, but I truly believe this misunderstanding of the Bible where Jesus will come back to Israel to make animal sacrifices and completely destroy this physical world is causing a lot of the problems.

They see Israel as a special people no matter what they do, so Israel gets away with murder. They see GOD completely destroying the planet, so why try to do anything positive for the earth, climate change isn't real, because GOD will end the world.

A true understanding of the Bible can set men free.
A little Socialism on the Left is better than a little fascism on the Right.

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2017, 02:07:32 PM »
You haven't addressed the time issue, so Jesus would come quickly or suddenly, HE said no man knows exactly when HE would return to judge HIS people, but soon in THIS generations before all HIS disciples died.

 :) Been there, done that.
And your chosen bible version ALSO tells you what "generation" means, 6996.

Matthew 23:33,36
33 Snakes! Sons of vipers! How shall you escape the judgment of hell?
36 Yes, all the accumulated judgment of the centuries shall break upon the heads of this very generation.

Sons in your version is generation in the KJV.

Matthew 23:33,36
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Generation in both verses means "offspring"... in other words,"Sons".
http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRGRK10.htm#S1081

=======

Your bible version isn't always correct...
Abraham isn't just the father of the Judaeans... or even of your replacement theology-Jews.
   Abraham is said to be the father of MANY NATIONS... that in him, all the nations will be blessed.

Matthew 3:7-12

9 Don’t try to get by as you are, thinking, ‘We are safe for we are Jews—descendants of Abraham.’ That proves nothing. God can change these stones here into Jews!

Matthew 3:9, KJV: "And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."

Genesis 17:5  Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. KJV


The Bible says you have to rightly divide the word of truth, harmonizing the scriptures, showing who they fit.

Your "righly dividing" thing is the Foundation of Dispensationalism.  Dispensationalist are not following the Kingdom Gospel, they're replacing the Hebrews with themselves... or so they think...:--

Revelation 7:4   And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline akaspooky

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2017, 03:00:43 PM »
And if we truly use Scripture to define Scripture, we often don't need to look any farther than the next verse.  And since the Greek "erchomai", which is translated as "coming" can also mean "appear"...

Matthew 16:28, 17:1-2
"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
     And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light."

Peter, James and John have already fulfilled Matthew 16:28... that IS Jesus appearing in His kingdom.  John saw the very same transfiguration in Revelation 1:16.

6996... find out what the Greek words actually ARE... please.
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (gentiles), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."--Jesus, Matthew 28:19-20

Offline 6996

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Re: Boycott, past and future
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2017, 05:00:13 PM »
Matthew 16:27 which promised Jesus' return with the angels to judge every man cannot be the time of the Transfiguration--He did not judge then, and the kingdom had not been established as yet. This happen just six days later, Jesus wouldn't say there are some standing that won't see death in 6 days, doesn't fit, no one died in those six days, and Jesus suggested some would have died when he returned.

Revelation 22:12 is speaking about the same event. Behold, I come quickly; and my [a]reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.  Jesus repeats his promise of Matthew 16:27, and which is post resurrection, post Transfiguration, yet was said to be "at hand'

Jesus didn't return in HIS glory at the Transfiguration and Jesus later said, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead" Matt. 17:9

What did Jesus specifically mention they would see?

1. "the Son of Man coming in his Father's glory"

2. "angels"

3. Each person being rewarded for what he has done (the judgment)

4. "his kingdom"

At the transfiguration, the Son of Man was there and he was changed to a certain glorified state (Matt. 17:2; Mark 9:3; Luke 9:29). However, strictly speaking, he was not "coming" -- he was already there. There were no angels present, nor was there any sign of a judgment taking place. In fact, very little in the account could be reasonably related to "his kingdom."

The Bible must fit.  The day of the LORD isn't this last day where Jesus physically destroy the world. In 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul is addressing people wondering if the day of the LORD has passed if the day of the LORD was the end of the physical universe, why would they be asking Paul if it's passed? they could just look out the window and see the world was still here.

The coming of the LORD was in AD70 to judge Israel.
A little Socialism on the Left is better than a little fascism on the Right.